Sunday To Sunday Attentive Heart

Welcome to the Attentive Heart Podcast where we explore how an integration of mind, body, and spirit makes us whole and enables us to become more compassionate to ourselves and to others. I'm your host, John Gribowich.

So you have this amazing kind of reversion experience conversion type experience and what do you do with that? I mean, you go back to LA and you start going back to the daily grind, or mean, like what happened after that? I go back to LA and but before that, it, I remember, this was like, because I took some time off, I was staying home. And I remember just thinking this now at that time, I didn't know what grace is. And, you know, we could talk about that another time. But I just remember, I wasn't grieving at that time, I was giving this strength of like, I can't even explain it. But I think I needed to have that strength then because, you know, of our family.

Like, some of us were grieving, some of us were strong. And then later on, I was grieving. And then they had the strength. So it was like this, this balance, you know, but I never, I never forgot that. Because I was like, “Okay, this is not me”, this is coming from the strength that is coming from outside of me, you know. So that was one thing, but then I, but then going back to LA, yeah, kind of get back into the grind, you know, you can easily slip back into a lifestyle. Still wasn't really going to church, but like, God took care of that. Because I was dating this, Filipina girl, and Easter came along and she was like, alright, it's Easter, like, we should go to church, you know. And so we went to church, and we went to this parish, Good Shepherd, and there was this priest there. And he was, like, lighting the place on fire. You know, like, he was just, people were lined up to see this guy because he was just like, he just hit you with the truth and all this stuff.

And, and I remember being there and being super uncomfortable, because it was like, hit me, you know, sometimes the truth hurts, you know, and, and I was like, squirming in my seat. And I was like, I don't like this. And, but I like, but I had to go back. And I kept going back and kept going back. And like, this guy became like, I still talk to him this day became like, my mentor, and my friend and my spiritual director and all that. And that's when I really started getting into my faith and practicing and church and like, getting involved, and I got involved with, you know, anything that they needed me. I would help them, you know.

What were some of these truths that he was hitting you with, so to speak? I mean, like, I remember, like, things that really kind of just hit you harder. Yeah, a lot of it was just lifestyle stuff. You know, at that time, I was still living very just kind of doing what I wanted to do, you know.

So it's definitely those kinds of things. But then also those things that hit a little deeper, like, you know, like, it hits you in the gut, because, you know, it's true, you know, and, you know, we're all built in to want truth and to seek truth and to want to know, like, why and all this stuff, you know. So it bothered me, but I wanted to, I needed more. So like, yeah, I just, I just kept going back and became like a wallflower at that place.

That's great. So let's unpack that more. I mean, because you enter the seminary later in life, right? Yeah. So it took you a while to think that God might be leading you to become a priest. So what were some of the touch points from where you are here, now coming back to church, establishing this relationship with this priest to then thinking that you might become one?

Yeah. So like I said, I got really involved with this church and they had, it was right in the middle of LA they had all kinds of awesome things going on. And I remember sitting at Mass one day, and I was just praying. And this little tiny lady is walking around. And I've seen her before, I didn't really know who she was. And there's something about her like, again. You know, I keep talking about my mom, but like, she reminded me of my mother, and she was walking around, and then she sort of made her way around the pew, and then plop she sat right next to me. And she's like, I'm sister Virginia, and like, my mom's name was Virginia.

So I was like, you know, what are you doing? And she's like, she just introduced herself and, and I'm like, “Oh, you know, I'm just praying.” I'm praying and this and that. And I think I said, I think I mentioned something about my mother, but I didn't say anything about what happened to me or whatever? And she just said, “Oh, is she with us anymore?” And I was like, “No, she's not.” And she's like, “Well, good. Now you can talk to her all the time.” you know, and it just made me feel comfortable. And she invited me to become part of the RCA, which is like when people who are adults want to come into the church and become baptized and confirmed they go through this program RCA. And so she wanted me to be like a sponsor or something. So I did that. And then like, before I knew it, like I said, I mean, they had like prison ministries, they had homebound ministries, they had teen confirmation, adult bible studies, like anything I could do, I was there.

And I was there, like, three, four nights a week and at Mass all the time. And it was like a really awesome community like it was. Everybody knew each other in that church. It's like the ideal of what a church should be in terms of community and everybody, like, got each other's back, and like, that kind of place. And so yeah, so I got really involved in all that stuff. And then, at the same time, I was doing my own work. And I hated it. Like I hated what I was doing. I was creating cartoons for Barbie dolls, like, animations that were all about, like, finding the most bling, and getting the most boys guys and like, for like, eight-year-old girls, and I'm like, this stuff is horrible. And like, the term that always stuck with me was the velvet coffin.

Like I just, it felt like a velvet coffin. Like you're very comfortable, but you're slowly dying, you know. And I don't think I've ever heard that expression, actually. But yeah. And I remember once I was sitting in a meeting, and I'm going to, I'm going to, like name drop here, but it was like a meeting to create something for, like Ryan Seacrest Productions. And so they were all getting this team together to like, we want to create this new property for the Ryan Seacrest brand to like, make more money for this, whatever. And, I was looking around the table and all these people, God bless him, I'm gonna judge him. But they're like talking to create this, like, I don't remember if it was an app or something for XBox or what it was, but like, they're all everybody was talking like they were this, like, they were just about to discover the cure of cancer, or like world hunger.

And I was like, cracking jokes like, well, like yeah, who cares? Like, whatever, it'd be fun to do this. And they were all looking at me like, like, and I didn't have that same. This is Ryan Seacrest we're talking about here. Exactly. Like, they sense that I didn't have that level of that. And that was the point where I knew I can't do this anymore. Like, I just, I can't do it anymore. Because it's like, and ironically, I was part of like, you know, all these groups and one day, because I'd never thought of the priesthood. And one day, like three people came up to me at three different times, they were like, “You should be a priest.” Like, you should be a priest. You should be. And I was like, priests, like, “What are you talking about?” Like, not me, not me, you know.

But it's like they say that's this once the seed is planted, like, it's planted, you know? Right, right. So I sat on that for probably about three years, and it just sort of stayed there and never went away. I remember talking to a vocation director or spiritual director or something, and he's like, alright, like, it's getting to the point where you got to do something about it or else it's not going to go away. You know, he's like, so you got to take the next step. So that's when I decided to, I was like, alright, like, maybe I'll try this and enter the seminary and I was like, should I go in LA? You know, there are different types of priests and different types of things you could do. And finally, my dad called me from New York. And he was like, oh, there's like a seminary like right up the street from here, you should go there. And I called them up. And they're like, yeah, like, we'll take you and I drove across the country. And that was it.

So I drove from Los Angeles to Las Vegas for a night. And then all the way across the country to Queens. And I remember talking to some of the priests there, and they're like, yep, we think that's the first time that has ever happened in the seminary. Like, it was like, again, I've been on a million retreats. That was my favorite one driving cross country. Yeah, it was like the best retreat ever. You know, the thing that I remember the most about it was, I mean, I was terrified. You know, I was like, okay, like, what did it I, what am I getting into? What did I sign up for here? Like, what am I getting myself into? You know, I had no idea what to expect. I hadn't lived in New York for 13 years. So. And yeah, I was terrified. But at the same time, like, every minute of that, like, just being on the road was like a retreat. It was therapeutic. You know.

I love that. Yeah. I mean, the last time I did cross country was leaving a Trappist monastery in New York, and just heading to another monastery in California, just trying it out, see if things work out there in Big Sur. But it was, for me, it was like, I don't even know really, if even if this monastery things are gonna work out. But I just know, I have to get out to California. And I just packed up everything I owned, in a rental, rented a rental car, and just drove. And there's something about that, I think it really goes to the power of like, just really putting yourself on a limb like not really knowing how it's going to work out. I mean, that's the ultimate dark night right there. And it's like, that's the place you really want to be. Because you have nothing left to grab onto other than the love of God, which is the only thing you need.

And the love of God comes through so many different places. I mean, like, I don't know how your experience worked with where you were staying. But I was amazed that when I drove from New York to California, every place I stopped, I stayed with someone I knew. I was like, I can't believe I know, people living all around the country at this point where I can plan a trip, and have a place to stay with someone welcoming me. And also not just that, but also encouraging me. I mean, like, how does this happen? I mean, like, it seems to me, at least in my life, that the more you just try to, like let go of trying to be in control of anything humanity actually wins. Because you start seeing just the goodness of other people, not because they're feeling bad for you, but because like we really desire this type of common unity and a common bond and a way to know that we're all working as members of body to bring healing and also to bring encouragement, and also to help shine light along the path.

So sorry, just kind of going off on that. But I mean, this just reminded me so much of my experience of driving across the country. But when you arrive in New York, I mean, entering the seminary is kind of a process. So it was just like, Okay, we're happy you're here with let's start. I mean, they like to have it. What did they do with you?

Yeah, this is the Archdiocese in New York. Right. So you're so you apply for the Archdiocese of New York? Well, it's funny, you should say that about the trip and you having you know, friends along the way, which is awesome. Like I didn't have any friends along the way, but God provided for me too, because I stopped at one place and literally in the middle, like and I because at that time, I just, I didn't have any money either. At that time, it was like, I don't know. But I remember I stopped at the cheapest places I could find which is always a cool experience.

But I was staying at one place. I think it was in Ohio or something I don't remember and it was a mega storm outside. And I was like wow, like that storm sounds like it's inside my room. And I like turn on the lights and it literally was inside my room. Like it was like a leak of water just pouring. And so I got that night free. And then another one I stopped at another place and I got like, they had to move my room because of some other reason and they gave me like a 50% discount off of like 60 bucks. Like, alright, but God's got this, you know, crossed the country for under 100 bucks. Yeah, totally.

So then I showed up at the seminary when I got here, I literally only had, I think like maybe two days before I had to, like show up at the seminary and I had lived in LA in California for 13 years. So like, everyone was like, well, you move back, like, my whole family's here, everybody. And I was like, kind of here for like, like a day and a half. And then I was like, by like, you know, it was going into the, into the seminary. So it was a mega culture shock transition. Like, I mean, even church-wise, like, the churches are a little different everywhere, you know, no, Northeast is different, a little different than California. And it's all like, good, but it's all like, everything is a little different.

And I remember getting there and like, the priests were wearing all these things that I'd never seen before. And, and I was like, in a black leather jacket, like a tight leather jacket, and like shorts, and you know, and they were kinda like, “Okay, like, do you have some trousers to wear? Like, that kind of thing? You know?” And so I think they were equally as scared of me as I was of them. But then it turned out, you know, it all, it all turned out fine. And, I mean, it was an experience as yeah, you know, but, but as much as like, probably complained about it in the day, I look back with a, with a grateful heart over the whole thing. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I was not really a big fan of the whole seminary experience.

But I mean, but look at just, you know, the relationships that were formed. I mean, we're talking here simply because we spent time in the seminary together. And, you know, every time in our life, there are things that we are not liking about what, where we've been placed, but there's always something good to hold on to and seminary is no exception to that. But so what made you pull the plug? Yeah, you know, I mean, you can, this goes for a lot of things, you know.

That peace, you know, is there an inner peace? And is that peace? Does it increase? Or does it decrease? And like, and not just like, oh, how do I feel about it, but like a deep, deep inner peace in that spot where you know, where it takes a little effort to get to it. But I knew
that, through the years, that peace was not increasing, it was decreasing to the point where every year I kind of was more like, I found myself just okay, kind of forcing it a little bit.
And when you're in the seminary, it's so busy, there's so much going on, your next three years are planned, like, summers are planned, like, so you, you don't really have much of a chance to like, slow down. And so I remember kind of like, Okay, I gotta think about this, but then like, two years would go by, you know, alright. It got to the point where I was like, there was very strong lack of peace there. And I remember talking to my spiritual director, and he was like, “Yeah, I kind of knew this was coming.” And the seminary is about discerning. You know, God's will in your life.

It's not about only about becoming a priest, it's about finding, you know, really discerning what God's will is. And another spiritual director used to say to me, like, if anything gets you out of here, you're not going back. It's because you're moving forward, you're moving on up onto something else. And I really, I mean, my whole life, I was in some sort of creative world.

You know, art school and drawing, since I'm two and like, all and I was just like, like, that's me. That's my identity. Like, that's who I am. And like, that's what I got to do. And I remember a very wise seminary friend said to me once, priests are not something you do, it's like who you are, you know, and that always stuck with me. Because I was like, “Yeah, I could do the priest thing and I could be a priest, I think, but like who I am is a creative person.” Like that is that's who I am, you know?

Sure. And that's what I wanted to, to sort of do with everything that I now learned, which I'm very grateful for from that time in the seminary, yeah, yeah. Wow so much to unpack just about those things. But I was really caught with this whole creative thing. Because one thing I really realized just recently is that one of the dangers in the seminary is that it can really stifle creativity. Because for the very reason that you just said, like, everything's planned out for you, and that does not really lend itself to opportunities to do creative things. So if you are an extremely creative type of person, like yourself, I could see how that could be a tension. Now, I don't think I was able to articulate it that way for myself personally, until just recently. And I don't know if I talk to you about this, but something I've been talking about with like everyone is that I'm just so enamored by this new book from Rick Rubin, the record producer called The Creative Act: A Way of Being, and he makes the argument in this book that everyone is creative.

You know, it's a creative action to just think about what's the quickest way to get from point A to point B, right? I mean, there's a level of creativity, you know, business people are creative. Just a janitor is creative on how he wants to go about cleaning a room and whatnot. I mean, like, everyone has a creative impulse in them. And I think that that is really the sign of how God works through us, as we co-create this world with God. And so, as you're saying, that's, it's just kind of it just resonates that way with me. Amen. Yeah. And I always love the term divine artists, you know. God is the first artist, you know, and, and like, like, God is, like, the creative creator, the creative and like, I and to be creative, and I agree with 100%, with what you said, because to be creative is is to be like God, and that way did regenerative

You know, to be like, and so. So yeah, I and I just, I just did a little piece of something about that. And it and it just, the opening line was just like, okay, even if you're not creative, I'm sure you're creative in some way. Yeah. And, and a lot of people responded to that, because they're like, “Well, yeah, I never really thought I'm creative. But like, when I make a card, or when I like, do this, or like, I do it, like nobody else can do it.” And you know, and it's like, yeah, everybody's creative in, you know, in some way, which is, which is God. I think that I've been coming to a place where I like to just try to almost think of these words interchangeably. I think, to be creative, is to be contemplative. To be contemplative is to be attentive, to be attentive is to be a participant in creation, and you just start taking everything you're seeing, and it becomes uniquely manifested in what you do.

Like, I mean, it, I think that's basically the uniqueness of every person, you know, it's that we all are creative. We all were created to be creative. And to be creative means to be contemplative, to gaze upon something. And to be contemplative is to be attentive to what's in front of you. And to be attentive is to recognize that oh, you are a participant in this world with lots of stuff, and most importantly, lots of people who are giving to you, ultimately, God's presence for you to then take and to uniquely make sense of and to share as a creative person. I mean, that is really life in a nutshell. You know, and, and that's the excitement about life too.

I hope you enjoyed Fr. John Grovowich. He will be back as a contributing podcaster. Please share the Sunday to Sunday Witness Podcast with your friends, and if you have comments send them to me annmary@sundaytosunday.com. As always this is Ann Mary Mullane from Kearny, New Jersey for Sunday to Sunday Productions.